Newsweek and The Daily Beast: When asked by NEWSWEEK (in 2007) if he has done baptisms for the dead—in which Mormons find the names of dead people of all faiths and baptize them, as an LDS spokesperson says, to “open the door” to the highest heaven—he looked slightly startled and answered, “I have in my life, but I haven’t recently.” The awareness of how odd this will sound to many Americans is what makes Romney hesitant to elaborate on the Mormon question. (via azspot)
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Something else I think is interesting about Mormonism and baptism:
Do Mormons believe the baptism of little children is an evil abomination?
I was baptized as an infant, and so was my brother. The “evil abomination” language comes from the lds.org website, where the following verses from the Book of Mormon were found:
14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither afaith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.
15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism.
16 Wo be unto them that shall pervert the ways of the Lord after this manner, for they shall perish except they repent. Behold, I speak with boldness, having aauthority from God; and I fear not what man can do; for bperfect clove dcasteth out all fear.
I welcome any comments from Mormons, because I am curious and that’s pretty strong language. Who’s supposed to be an evil abomination — the priest / pastor performing the baptism or the child being baptized? Or just the act itself? Oy.
Is this relevant to today? Yes, because Romney’s going to Poland.
“Poland, of course, is one of the most Roman Catholic nations on earth, and, despite noble efforts at reconciliation, there have been historic tensions between Mormons and Roman Catholics. Most recently, there had been the bizarre and — to some — hideous practice of posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims — from Poland — and other countries into the Mormon faith, which the LDS leadership has stopped.
“In the practice of posthumous baptism, a living person is baptized on behalf of a dead person so that the dead person can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. These “proxy” baptisms are established practice in the Mormon faith, and they have been performed for a variety of famous and infamous people, including the founding fathers, Barack Obama’s mother, Adolf Hitler and possibly Anne Frank.
“When Catholic and Jewish organizations, among others, complained about proxy baptisms being performed when there was no Mormon genealogical tie with the deceased “beneficiary,” church leadership put a stop to this category of baptisms. But names are still being submitted by some church members.”
hmmm… i’m not a mormon, though i’ve read the books. i’ve always read that “wickedness to suppose” line as referring to the idiots who would assume (and tell anyone who would listen) that if children aren’t baptized they will go straight to hell. it’s cruel (because they only tell that to people to cause fear and dismay) and presumptuous (if there is a god, who is to say that he would make such rules?) and sadistic (if hell exists, and it is for people who are truly evil, what kind of god would be willing to put kids there on a technicality?). looking forward to hearing what you come up with…
I agree with you that the threat of not baptizing infants is ridiculous. But I’m really curious about the Mormon belief that it’s an “evil abomination.” That’s pretty extreme language.
for an extreme idea, yes. but the “abomination” here (according to my reading) is the idea, in essence, that children need baptism, not the baptism itself. those who feel the need to baptize children are in the grips of the idea that they carry original sin (a doctrine the mormons were moving away from). i acknowledge the extremism of the language, but i suppose i always read it historically, as a comment against catholicism and their doctrines. the assertion of evil, in this case, is better understood as a demonization of the other and their “weird” and “foreign” ways (meaning that r.money comes by his reflexive assertion of the foreignness of the president honestly if not honorably).
sorry, i don’t think i was being very clear earlier…
I see what you’re saying — and I did get that this was specifically targeting practices and beliefs of Catholics, and the Protestants who baptize infants like Episcopalians and Lutherans. I have a feeling this religion demonizes a lot more things than just baptism when it comes to ‘others’ — or “you people.” : )
Yes this is an issue to the intellectually inferior.
Sure it is. I wonder if you feel the same about conservatives questioning President Obama’s religious beliefs for the past 4 years?
Also, you really should change your name to dougtheMORMONavenger.